[Visitaccess] ramps, inclined planes

Bruce F. Donnelly bfd at accessplaces.com
Tue Jun 5 14:47:44 EDT 2007


Yes, I had to hold the walker or at home my mother had
two walkers -- one for upstairs and one for down.  I
had to put hand-holds at key spots on the door frames
down to the driveway and at the front door (since she
likes to sit on the stoop).


--- Eleanor Smith <eleanors at mindspring.com> wrote:

> I have never seen anyone walking up steps with a
> walker.  There is not
> enough room to place a walker on a riser.  If
> someone who uses a walker
> is walking up a stairway, it would appear that some
> helper is carrying
> the walker up or down the stairs for the person.
> 
> The world is full of inclined planes and must remain
> so.  The person who
> cannot walk up or push a manual wheelchair up an
> incline of 12%, which
> includes many city sidewalks and the great majority
> of curb cuts,  will
> not go out alone into the world for long without
> being stopped by earth
> geometry and the human-made inclines that follow or
> somewhat modify that
> geometry (but not to the point of leveling it--which
> is neither possible
> nor desirable).   If a 1:12 slope is physically
> impossible or harmful
> for a person with a mobility impairment, they will
> go out in a manual
> wheelchair, with someone who can push them if they
> cannot push
> themselves.   Many people at that point will buy a
> scooter or power
> chair for those times when they intend to engage the
> world outside their
> home. 
> 
> >From a broader perspective, I personally am not
> very interested in
> engaging in debates about whether basic access to
> virtually all new
> homes, with a zero step entrance and wide interior
> doors as sine qua
> non, is desirable.  I take that as a given for this
> Visitability list.
> It's my hope that much of the dialog will center on
> finding and
> publicizing NU existing projects that demonstrate
> good Visitable design;
> noting quite openly NU projects that missed
> opportunities to do that;
> advocating and educating to specific NUists we know 
> who are currently
> developing residential projects that they design
> with basic access; and
> suggesting/acting to effect ways that CNU can
> advance Visitability/UD
> more explicitly and consistently within the
> organization.   Interested
> to hear what others on this list are looking for.
> 
> Eleanor
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org
> [mailto:visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org] On Behalf
> Of Bruce F. Donnelly
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:51 AM
> To: CNU VisitAccess
> Subject: [Visitaccess] FW: Planetizen Article on
> Accessible Housing
> 
> 
> Yes, but cane/walker is actually complicated with
> respect to ramps, etc.  It's often a toss-up as to
> whether people needing them will take stairs or a
> ramp.  My mother, when she used a walker, preferred
> a
> stairway with a stout railing to a ramp, which could
> throw her back out.  After her hip replacement, her
> doctor told her to avoid ramps for 2 years.  A level
> entry was best, but then she preferred stairs, and a
> ramp was (is) a last resort.  
> 
> 
> --- Liz <lkormos at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> > I think you are being too narrow to restrict the
> > analysis to wheelchair
> > users.  Anyone who uses a cane or walker is
> mobility
> > impaired and should be
> > included in the analysis.
> > 
> > Liz Kormos
> > >President
> > >Kormos and Company LLC
> > >12 Overlook Drive
> > >Voorheesville, NY 12186
> >  
> > 518-439-8903
> > 518-466-8904 cell 
> > lkormos at KormosandCompany.com
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org
> > [mailto:visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org] On Behalf
> > Of Bruce F. Donnelly
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:21 AM
> > To: CNU VisitAccess
> > Subject: Re: [Visitaccess] FW: FW: Planetizen
> > Article on Accessible Housing
> > 
> > Fine, but that's not what he asked.  What is the
> > percentage of people who will need wheelchairs in
> > their lifetime?  What is the percentage of
> dwellings
> > in which people who use wheelchairs will live? 
> Or,
> > since that is probably pretty hard to get, what is
> > the
> > percentage of people who will be both able-bodied
> > enough to live independently _and_ who are in need
> > of
> > wheelchairs in their lifetimes?  
> > 
> > There _is_ an old statistic (1995 or so was the
> last
> > I
> > saw) of people who are outside institutions and
> use
> > wheelchairs, but if there's a parallel claim that
> > people are being forced into institutions because
> of
> > mobility, then that implies that the percentage of
> > people outside institutions using wheelchairs
> would
> > be
> > higher if they could find housing that
> accommodates
> > them.  
> > 
> > It's not enough to say that the number or
> percentage
> > of people over 65 is going up, because at the same
> > time I am hearing that the number of people in
> each
> > age cohort needing mobility assistance is going
> > down. 
> > That is, if we are able to offer hip and knee
> > replacements, better prosthetics, direct nerve
> > stimulation and robotic exoskeletons (which are
> > being
> > rolled out in Japan), then the age at which 10% of
> > people need wheelchairs will likely go from 82,
> > where
> > it looks like it is now, to 85 and up.
> > 
> > There must be stats and projections; do you know
> > where?
> > 
> > 
> > --- "Steinfeld, Edward" <arced at buffalo.edu> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Steinfeld, Edward 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:28 AM
> > > To: 'Kormos'
> > > Subject: RE: [Visitaccess] FW: Planetizen
> Article
> > on
> > > Accessible Housing
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > This is a chart from a paper we commissioned:
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Demographics of Wheeled Mobility Device Users
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > By
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Mitchell P. LaPlante, Ph.D.
> > > 
> > > Associate Adjunct Professor
> > > 
> > > Dept. of Social and Behavioral Sciences
> > > 
> > > Disability Statistics Center
> > > 
> > > University of California 
> > > 
> > > 3333 California Street, Room 340
> > > 
> > > San Francisco, CA 94118
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > October 7, 2003
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Figure 1. Proportion of the population unable to
> > or
> > > having some
> > > difficulty walking by themselves, and use of
> > > assistive devices, by age:
> > > United States 1995-1997
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > This paper is being updated for publication in a
> > > journal. From the graph
> > > you can find the incidence of mobility
> impairment
> > at
> > > any age. 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Edward Steinfeld, Arch.D., AIA
> > > 
> > > Professor of Architecture and Director
> > > 
> > > Center for Inclusive Design and Environmental
> > Access
> > > School of
> > > Architecture and Planning
> > > 
> > > University at Buffalo, State University of New
> > York
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Tel. 716 829 3485 (x327)
> > > 
> > > Fax. 716 829 3861
> > > 
> > > email address:arced at buffalo.edu
> > > 
> > > IDEA Center website: www.ap.buffalo.edu/idea 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > 
> > > From: Kormos [mailto:lkormos at nycap.rr.com] 
> > > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:23 PM
> > > To: Steinfeld, Edward; VisitAccess at cnunext.org
> > > Subject: RE: [Visitaccess] FW: Planetizen
> Article
> > on
> > > Accessible Housing
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Edward,
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Isn't it be possible to calculate statistically
> > the
> > > probability of being
> > > mobility disabled during your adult lifetime. 
> It
> > > would be interesting
> > > to calculate the probability of both your own
> > > disability and also that
> > > of having a close family member with a
> disability
> > > (parents, grandparent,
> > > child) at any given point in time.  Adding that
> > > factor would show how
> > > common this is in families.  
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > This year my 90 year old uncle visited our home
> in
> > a
> > > wheel chair.  My 84
> > > year old father in law walks with a cane and can
> > not
> > > do stairs. He lives
> > > in a retirement community nearby and visits our
> > home
> > > often staying the
> > > weekend.  Luckily I built my two story home with
> > 36
> > > inch wide doors, a
> > > single step into the house from the garage (the
> > > builder said I couldn't
> > > do at grade in 1994) and a first floor
> study/guest
> > > room and first floor
> > > full bathroom.  The added cost was minimal.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Just drive around a typical older neighorhood
> and
> > > see how many people
> > > have installed ramps.  I just don't understand
> the
> > > resistance from those
> > > building new single family construction.  
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Liz Kormos
> > > President
> > > Kormos and Company LLC
> > > 12 Overlook Drive
> > > Voorheesville, NY 12186
> > > 
> > > 518-439-8903
> > > 518-466-8904 cell
> > > 
> > > lkormos at KormosandCompany.com
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > 	-----Original Message-----
> > > 	From: visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org
> > > [mailto:visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org]On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > > Steinfeld, Edward
> > > 	Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:01 PM
> > > 	To: VisitAccess at cnunext.org
> > > 	Subject: [Visitaccess] FW: Planetizen Article
> on
> > > Accessible
> > > Housing
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	The % of people who have a mobility impairment
> is
> > > cross
> > > sectional data - it doesn't tell us who is at
> risk
> > > or who will
> > > eventually have such an impairment over the
> course
> > > of their life. Since
> > > houses last a long time, we have to take the
> long
> > > view. The % over 65 IS
> > > important because older people have a much high
> > > probability of having a
> > > mobility impairment than the rest of the
> > population.
> > > They are a large
> > > portion of the population at risk. Moreover,
> they
> > > will drive the market
> > > for accessibility because, due to the experience
> > > with their parents,
> > > this generation is much more aware of the
> > importance
> > > of access for aging
> > > in place. 
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	Edward Steinfeld, Arch.D., AIA
> > > 
> > > 	Professor of Architecture and Director
> > > 
> > > 	Center for Inclusive Design and Environmental
> > > Access School of
> > > Architecture and Planning
> > > 
> > > 	University at Buffalo, State University of New
> > York
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	Tel. 716 829 3485 (x327)
> > > 
> > > 	Fax. 716 829 3861
> > > 
> > > 	email address:arced at buffalo.edu
> > > 
> > > 	IDEA Center website: www.ap.buffalo.edu/idea 
> > > 
> > > 	
> > > ________________________________
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 	From: visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org
> > > [mailto:visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org] On
> Behalf
> > > Of Bruce F. Donnelly
> > > 	Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:53 PM
> > > 	To: CNU VisitAccess
> > > 	Subject: Re: [Visitaccess] Planetizen Article
> on
> > > Accessible
> > > Housing
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	I'm immediately skeptical when someone uses
> > > irrelevant
> > > statistics.  The percentage of people over 65
> > isn't
> > > relevant; the
> > > percentage of people with mobility disabilities
> > is. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	Too static <-> "Life" <-> Too noisy
> > > 
> > > 	--Christopher Langton
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	Bruce F. Donnelly
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	216 470 9348
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	From: visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org
> > > [mailto:visitaccess-bounces at cnunext.org] On
> Behalf
> > > Of Todd McLeod
> > > 	Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 4:02 PM
> > > 	To: visitaccess at cnunext.org
> > > 	Subject: [Visitaccess] Planetizen Article on
> > > Accessible Housing
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	The linked article on accessibility for
> > > single-family housing
> > > was posted to Planetizen last Tuesday, and
> > includes
> > > a reference to
> > > Eleanor Smith and "Concrete Change."
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	http://www.planetizen.com/node/24729
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	Todd McLeod, E.I.
> > > 
> > > 	Civil Design, Inc.
> > > 
> > > 	The Guaranty Building
> > > 
> > > 	120 S. Olive Ave., Suite 403
> > > 
> > > 	West Palm Beach, FL 33401
> > > 
> > > 	Tel:  (561) 659-5760 x102
> > > 
> > > 	Fax: (561) 659-5772
> > > 
> > > 	Cell: (561) 676-6208
> > > 
> > > 	tmcleod at civil-design.com
> > > 
> > > 	www.civil-design.com
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > 	 
> > > 
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > Visitaccess mailing list
> > > Visitaccess at cnunext.org
> > >
> >
>
http://mail.cnunext.org/mailman/listinfo/visitaccess_cnunext.org
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yours truly,
> > 
> > Bruce F. Donnelly
> > 
> > (216) 470-9348
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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>
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Visitaccess at cnunext.org
>
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> 


Yours truly,

Bruce F. Donnelly

(216) 470-9348



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